ultimate NM

møkkis · PDGA medlem Ble medlem: Sep 01, 2004 Innlegg: 680

hva er grunnen til at man ikke kan stille 2 lag fra samme klubb i nm?
Er dette bra for rekrutering og evt nivå heving av ultimate i norge?
Vet at det sitter noen der ute som sikkert ville vært med og spille, men ikke kan pga denne regelen.

Adrian · Skrevet: Man Mar 15, 2010 11:41 pm Tittel: Re: ultimate NM

What's up Espen!

Here are the answers to your questions. Smil

Catch you later!
Ade

møkkis wrote:

hva er grunnen til at man ikke kan stille 2 lag fra samme klubb i nm?
Er dette bra for rekrutering og evt nivå heving av ultimate i norge?

The 2010 Norwegian Championships will be an official NM -- for the first time in over a decade.

One team per club is the only way we can achieve results that make sense for an official Norwegian Championships tournament in ultimate ...for the exact same reason why it makes sense for only one team per club to receive US points at each Ultimate Series event (the US points go to the club, not to the team).

NM 2010 is a 1-event competition among clubs. So if a club were to have more than one team in the Norwegian Championships, that in itself would be unfair to other clubs. Also, an unusual situation could arise when teams from one club play against each other: it's possible that one of the teams would feel less inclined to play hard. It would also be possible for two teams from one club to reach the playoffs and move on to the finals. NM 2010 is a 1-event tournament, so a team's results in the event define its final placement in the tournament. The guidelines must guard against such situations as described above. Therefore, only one team allowed per club.

Any club whose team participates in NM, and wins, is the Norwegian Champions. Therefore, also no pickup teams, nor teams from clubs that are not members of NAIF.

The alternative is to have yet another quasi-NM, in which clubs may enter as many teams as they wish.

During the 2009-2010 indoor season, all NAIF clubs, non-NAIF clubs and pickup teams got to play three Ultimate Series events with the possibility to enter as many teams into each of these events as they wished. For NM 2010, only NAIF-registered clubs get to enter a team to represent their club in an official NM, with no limit to the number of players on their team. The NM Guidelines don't exclude players from playing in the tournament. That's up to each club. All NAIF-registered clubs may participate in NM, and clubs may have as many players on their team as they wish.

With NTNUI-Frisbee as a new host in Norwegian ultimate, the 2009-2010 Ultimate Series remained an official tournament that consisted of three events that anyone could participate in -- NAIF members and non-NAIF members, club teams and pickup teams. The separate, fourth event on 17. april -- an official NM for NAIF clubs w/o limitation to the number of players per team -- is a much more attractive event than 1) yet another quasi-NM, 2) a fourth Ultimate Series event, and 3) an independent, unofficial event.

We have opened up NAIF events to as many players as possible. We also believe that one out of four events -- an official NM with fair guidelines for all clubs -- will lend to the progress made in Norwegian ultimate.

That is why the event on 17. april will be an official NM tournament, in which clubs will compete with fair guidelines that lead to results that make sense for a Norwegian Championships tournament -- results that will be relevant, both in terms of personal value to players and clubs, and in recognition by the media and the national sporting scene.

As for players who wish to play for a club in NM but find themselves in a club without an ultimate team... they may pay the membership fee for, and thereby become members of, an NAIF registered club that has an ultimate team and play for that club at NM. This works in a fair and sensible way because NM 2010 is entirely separate from the Ultimate Series, and NM will be held at a time that doesn't overlap with the 2009-2010 Ultimate Series, which ended on February 13.

It's not too late for you to join a NAIF registered club and play for its team at NM. Smil

We look forward to the first official NM in ultimate in over a decade!

ekornbakke · Frisbeedude Ble medlem: Jun 07, 2005 Innlegg: 155

Takk for info!
Betyr dette at deles ut kongepokal?
Og hva er ellers de formelle grunnene til at NM denne gangen kan kalles et offisielt NM? Regner med at det har noe med sanksjonering fra idrettsforbundet og slikt?!

møkkis · PDGA medlem Ble medlem: Sep 01, 2004 Innlegg: 680

ser noe av poenget. Selv i nm i langrenn på staffet kan klubene stille flere lag

Jostein · PDGA medlem Ble medlem: Jun 22, 2004 Innlegg: 1778

Stovner 1, Stovner 2 og Stovner 3. Vil jo ikke ha det slik. Får være nok med at Enga stiller to lag i tippeligaen; VIF og AaFk.

Jostein · PDGA medlem Ble medlem: Jun 22, 2004 Innlegg: 1778

Forøvrig bør vel denne infoen være på norsk, er vel et NM?

Adrian · Skrevet: Tir Mar 16, 2010 11:44 am Tittel: Re: ultimate NM

ekornbakke wrote:

Takk for info!
Betyr dette at deles ut kongepokal?
Og hva er ellers de formelle grunnene til at NM denne gangen kan kalles et offisielt NM? Regner med at det har noe med sanksjonering fra idrettsforbundet og slikt?!

Hei Olav!

Kongepokal i ultimate krever at vi har flere deltakere og høyere nivå enn det vi har nå.

NAIFs Generalsekretær, som kan alle regler som kunnes kan, godkjente NM retningslinjene 9. mars 2010. Det er NAIF som arrangerer formelt sett, men det er grenstyret for frisbee som vedtar om det skal arrangeres. Regner med at det går bra. Smil

Ade

møkkis · PDGA medlem Ble medlem: Sep 01, 2004 Innlegg: 680

man vil vel ha flest mulig til og spille ultimate turneringer tenker jeg. Personlig så tar alle dissew nye kriteriene bort lysten min til og delta mer og er desverre fler enn meg som føler det slik. Helt greit og legge kriterier i grunn, men for ultimaten sin del så syns jeg det er for tidlig og bli så hard på regler som de allerede er. Er en grun til at golfen har blitt så stor som den er nå er jo fordi man til rett la slik at så mange som mulig kunne bli meg

Adrian · Skrevet: Tir Mar 16, 2010 6:48 pm Tittel: Re: ultimate NM

møkkis wrote:

Helt greit og legge kriterier i grunn, men for ultimaten sin del så syns jeg det er for tidlig og bli så hard på regler som de allerede er.

Hi Espen!

None of the clubs that participated in the Ultimate Series are dropping NM just because the NM guidelines state that they can only send one team. Actually, two additional clubs that didn't participate in the Ultimate Series will play in NM:

1. Lulu (they only play in NM in Norway)
2. NHHI (NM will be their first chance to get to an event).

If you take a look at the teams that participated in each US event for 2009-2010, you won't find any indication that any club would likely send two teams to NM, even if the guidelines allowed it.

Here's the rest of the player/team criteria for NM:

- There is no maximum limit on the number of players allowed on a team
- All teams in the event must be from clubs registered as members of NAIF through "Frisbee"
- All players on a team must be members of the club for which their team is playing.

That isn't demanding. C'mon and play ultimate again! Smil

møkkis · PDGA medlem Ble medlem: Sep 01, 2004 Innlegg: 680

men det du risikerer med regelen er at det er spiller internt i klubber som ikke får være med eller blir "benkeslitere".
Det som er synd er at man begynner med regler som kan "begrense" nye spillere og få være med, når man nesten ikke greier og samle 7 lag til et NM.
Målet nå burde være og bare fylle hallen med masse ultimate lag.
Så får de enda være om en klubb stiller med 2 eller 3 lag.
Jo mere lag jo bedre får man matchet spillere og de får mer innsyn i hvor morro dette er. Dette tror jeg vil heve nivået og rekruteringen.
Jeg syns det er kjempe bra med kriterier og regler, men bare ikke bli for strenge for tidlig.

Adrian · Skrevet: Ons Mar 17, 2010 6:52 pm Tittel: Re: ultimate NM

Hi Espen!

Those are healthy concerns that we share with you. Thanks!

After 3 of 4 events this indoor season, there's no indication that any clubs would send two teams to Fjellhamarhallen if allowed. Neither have there been any "benkeslitere" at any of the Ultimate Series events in 2009-2010. Even the Oslo clubs had only one team each at Desembercup.

Based on the current situation, there are no losses in sight. That's why the gains of holding an official NM this year are too great to ignore. And we happen to have the opportunity to hold an official NM this year.

I hope you'll consider playing! Smil

Ade

møkkis · PDGA medlem Ble medlem: Sep 01, 2004 Innlegg: 680

gjør det men har ikke noe lag og som jeg har skjønt så er ikke pick up lag lov.

Adrian · Skrevet: Ons Mar 17, 2010 7:38 pm Tittel: Re: ultimate NM

møkkis wrote:

gjør det men har ikke noe lag og som jeg har skjønt så er ikke pick up lag lov.

Espen...

Players who wish to play for a club in NM but find themselves in a club without an ultimate team may pay the membership fee for, and thereby become members of, an NAIF registered club that has an ultimate team and play for that club at NM. This works in a fair and sensible way because NM 2010 is entirely separate from the Ultimate Series, and NM will be held at a time that doesn't overlap with the 2009-2010 Ultimate Series, which ended on February 13.

It's not too late for you to join a NAIF registered club and play for its team at NM. Smil

ingoball · Skrevet: Ons Mar 17, 2010 7:48 pm Tittel: Re: ultimate NM

Adrian wrote:

møkkis wrote:

gjør det men har ikke noe lag og som jeg har skjønt så er ikke pick up lag lov.

Espen...

Players who wish to play for a club in NM but find themselves in a club without an ultimate team may pay the membership fee for, and thereby become members of, an NAIF registered club that has an ultimate team and play for that club at NM. This works in a fair and sensible way because NM 2010 is entirely separate from the Ultimate Series, and NM will be held at a time that doesn't overlap with the 2009-2010 Ultimate Series, which ended on February 13.

It's not too late for you to join a NAIF registered club and play for its team at NM. Smil

hva med spillere i klubber som har deltakende lag i NM, men som ikke er blant de 5-10 som får være med å spille? kan disse også melde seg inn i andre klubber for å spille?

Adrian · Skrevet: Ons Mar 17, 2010 8:53 pm Tittel: Re: ultimate NM

ingoball wrote:

hva med spillere i klubber som har deltakende lag i NM, men som ikke er blant de 5-10 som får være med å spille? kan disse også melde seg inn i andre klubber for å spille?

What's up Ingar!

Of course.

Players may change clubs at any time during the year.

For players who played in the Ultimate Series...

Think of the time period between 13. feb 2010 (the end of the 2009-2010 Ultimate Series) and 17. april 2010 (the day NM 2010 is played) as the period when they may change clubs (overganger) and play for their new club at NM.

Players may pay the membership fee for, and thereby become members of, an NAIF registered club that has an ultimate team and play for that club at NM.